Trying really hard with Aaron Francis
Welcome back to episode 6 of the ripples podcast. My name is Aaron Francis, and today with me on my show, apparently, are my co hosts, Greg and Michael. Just a little bit of fun there. Thanks for having me on the show, guys.
Michael:Hello, great to have you.
Greg:Hey, Aaron. How's it going, mate?
Aaron:Good. I'm so excited to be here. Excellent.
Michael:So the the reason if anyone has not guessed, the reason that we have Aaron Francis on this show is because he is the spiritual leader of this movement of what started out as, putting yourself out there and doing things and having good unexpected things happen, which is a mantra that I personally carried forward at Laracon AU last year, which which transformed into this idea about ripples and ripple the ripple effect not being anything that I created. But something that kind of encapsulated, I think, really nicely what what Aaron was talking about. And then now moving into this this try harder era of Aaron and and not to I I read the blog post that you put out, Aaron, and maybe you could speak a little bit to that. But I thought, yeah, trying hard is probably what it is. And then and then the announcement came for your new venture Mhmm.
Michael:On the back of, your tumultuous couple weeks on the back of a tumultuous couple of months since since your 2nd set of twins were born. So
Aaron:Mhmm.
Michael:We're excited to have you here and and to talk not about necessarily your business aspirations, but around the movement that kind of drives. And I think that you embody really well, you know, particularly in our Laravel community. But as we saw over the last few weeks since the incident, since the event that, you know, there is a there is a following of high profile and well respected people all across various different industries, not even just the web industry. So it was it was it was beautiful to see that despite, you know, the reason, you know, despite being let go from from employment, how how the community that, like, really, that you have built around yourself, whether intentionally or otherwise, came out in support of you.
Aaron:Yeah. That was kind of I mean, the past few weeks have been wild for many reasons. One is getting laid off is, that's a surprise. So it was kind of it was kind of whiplash a little bit because, you know, I'm on I'm on paternity leave or I I was on paternity leave, and then I got laid off while I was still on paternity leave. And so right there, I'm already like, holy crap.
Aaron:Like, I'm getting geared up to go back to work. I'm, like, feeling a lot better physically, ready to ready to go crush it, and then 2 days before you come back, it's like, game over, friend. I'm like, shoot. What what am I gonna do now? And then, you know, putting, like it's it's just, it's unique because I've never, like, I've never publicly looked for a job.
Aaron:I've looked for a job on the, which is how I ended up at, you know, Tuple, before PlanetScale, then PlanetScale, you know, know, sent me a DM. It was like, hey. Come work for us. And so I've always kinda just done, like, the normal job hop thing. And this time, it was just totally different because it's like, I'm not beholden to anyone.
Aaron:I don't have to, like, hide from my current employer that I'm, you know, unhappy. And so I put out a tweet that was like, hey, y'all. This is a little bit embarrassing, but I just got laid off, and I need some help figuring out what's next. And at that point, like, my I had already booked myself to go see Dune 2 because it was, like, my last week of maternity. I'm, like, live it up while you're free.
Aaron:And so I walk into Dune 2, and I'm, like, just got laid off. I'm gonna, you know, order a bunch of diet Cokes and chicken tenders and just, like, live it up for a little bit. And I got out of the theater and was just, like, dumbfounded, blown away by the response on on Twitter, alone. And it was really, like, moving for me to see, like, yes, a lot of people, you know, a lot of people were, like, oh, man, that sucks. But I feel like even more than that, a lot of people, like, genuinely had compassion for me and, like, were willing, you know, in their own words, willing to go out of their way to make sure that I ended up okay.
Aaron:And it's like, man, that is, that's just not something that you experience that often. It's just an outpouring of, you know, love and affection like that. I feel like that happens with great sickness or you And I felt like I was I was listening to all these people just be like, hey, man. Whatever it takes, I will help you. I got you.
Aaron:And that was really, really powerful and and moving for me to experience that.
Greg:Yeah. I I think when I saw when I saw your tweet, it's early I guess, early morning my time. Mhmm. I I I was initially like, oh, that sucks. That's like, couldn't have happened to, like, a nicer person, but very quickly, I'm like, there is absolutely no way this guy is not landing on his feet.
Greg:I think what was Ian was saying that, like, for the next 2 days, you know, Twitter was just about Aaron Francis Lane.
Aaron:Yeah. He put up the the still frame from Ferris Bueller and changed it to save Aaron instead of save Ferris, which was really funny.
Michael:It was it was nice that after after all of that, that you had your, like the saying usually goes, you don't wanna be the main character on Twitter. Mhmm. But I think you were the main character, and it was not, like, a devastating thing. It's not like we found out that Aaron Francis is secretly the most cynical bad person on Twitter, but it was everyone, you know, all of the outpouring, all of the clips that made it into that sensational video that you and Steve put together. Yeah.
Michael:But the people knew I guess, you were just there.
Aaron:Podcast. Yeah. It was crazy.
Michael:I think where you've kind of landed was an inevitability from my perspective that, like, you would, at some point, whether sooner or later, have ended up doing something incredible for yourself. I think that that you kind of got forced into it. Mhmm. And I I suppose I know that you're on paternity leave and you weren't thinking about work, but I'm sure there was some part of your brain that was thinking about what you would be doing, you know, in the future, that it's not necessarily like, it was planet scale right now, but what is Aaron Francis's future where, like, it was just a a strange I I understand, like, economically, financially, from a business perspective, that, like, you know, sometimes the best people do get let go. But you were the face of the company, which was the the strangest thing.
Michael:Like Yeah. There there are 1,000, 100 of thou you know, there are an innumerable number of people that did not know about PlanetScale. And, like, I get the argument that, like, all of those people are on free tier, and they're not really, you know, contributing to the bottom line. But word-of-mouth is and always will be the most powerful form of marketing. So, you know, I I I think PlanetScaled Business will be fine.
Michael:I don't think the hubbub around it is gonna impact them, especially considering the kinds of customers that they're actually chasing and that they have on their books. Yep. And and I think, like I said, for you, this was just the push that you needed. It's like, well, why not now?
Aaron:Mhmm. Yeah. That was the the place that I came down was why not now. And, you know, I've got at least 5 good reasons of why not now, and that would be my wife and my 4 kids. So that that those are, honestly, those are pretty good reasons.
Michael:Mhmm.
Aaron:But it it like, if from a family point of view, now is, like, the craziest time to try to go out on my own. From, like, a work point of view, Now is it makes the most sense in the world for me to go out on my own because I get to, like, I get to come out of PlanetScale Scott free. Right? Like Yeah. I I think the public record will show faithfully executed my duties to the uttermost, And then I get to leave without having to, like, feel bad about becoming the face of this company and then being like, thank you.
Aaron:I'm out of here. Yeah. I didn't make I didn't make the call. So
Michael:Yeah.
Aaron:Did I become the face of a company that I'm no longer at? I sure did, but that really you know, that wasn't my that wasn't my call. Yeah. And even thinking, like, when I was at PlanetScale thinking about the far future, I felt a little bit of, like, emotional turmoil over eventually quitting one day. Like, I was gonna stay, you know, I was gonna stay until, you know, hopefully, there was some sort of exit, and I got fabulously wealthy.
Aaron:But I thought at some point, like, at some point, I'm gonna have to leave, and I feel a little bit guilty about that Just preemptively being like, Hey, let me let me run your whole YouTube and be the guy. And then at some point I'm gonna leave. Yeah. And that just, like that was just removed as a concern. And now I get to enter into, like, I get to enter into the marketplace unencumbered and, like, as as the empathetic or sympathetic character.
Aaron:Like I did my job really well and then I still got fired. And like, so now people kind of want me to win even more. And so I thought from like a, from a momentum perspective, from, like, a PR perspective, from a work opportunity perspective, like, a lot of people want to to work with me right now, and I don't, you know, I don't take that for granted. And I think that is, like, this is all lining up that right now makes the most sense. And, frankly, like, if I crash and burn, that's okay.
Aaron:Like, I did I did the I'm gonna try it out on my own. I did, like, the the American dream thing, and I can I can crawl back and say, like, hey? All these companies, I tried really hard to do something on my own, and that was a noble pursuit, and it didn't work. Can I have a job? And I don't think I will have lost I don't think I will have lost very much in that way.
Greg:I think I think also too in terms of timing, it's given how hard you work, like, at least from from the outside looking in when you were working for PlanetScale, it looked like that was, like, pretty much a 150% of your effort was was going there. And if you were to go and take a job at another another start up or I'm I'm I'm imagining that a whole bunch of, like, Fortune 500 companies probably reached out to you as well. Mhmm. You're just gonna put all your effort into being the best you can be at that and not being the best you can be at your own thing. So, like, it's I think it's time to sort of, like, reap what you've signed in terms of, like, building this profile and and and really coming out.
Greg:And, I was I was speaking to Michael about it, when we were trying to get you on. And I'm like, this is kind of this is the sort of end game, I think, of, like, putting yourself out there. This is like, you know, 2 plus years of Mhmm. Being that guy and then being able to now cash the chips and and try something for yourself, which, and if you look. I would have been super happy for you if you went off and, you know, worked for the cell or something Mhmm.
Greg:Crazy. But I'm, like, even more happy that you're just going off now and saying, nope. I'm gonna I'm gonna roll the dice. I'm gonna try this out. And you're you're right.
Greg:Like, it's no harm no foul. You you'll be right no matter what. And I think you'll probably be even be better for having tried to do something
Michael:Yeah.
Greg:Than you would have if you didn't. Yeah.
Aaron:I think so. And I think you're you're you're right about the effort, that was required to faithfully execute my duties as a full time at a full time job as a husband and a parent and tried to, like, try to make my dreams come true as well, and I think I I recently came I I recently came to the conclusion that, like, something something has got to to slow down, something has got to give, And the one of the great, like, one of the great benefits of going out on my own is that now I have I just feel like I have unlimited time. Like, I feel like the world has opened up before me because I I'm, like, I walk into this office at, you know, 9 in the morning after playing with the kids all morning, and I walk in here, and I'm like, great. I get to do I get to pursue my own things all day long instead of being like, oh, shoot. I gotta record this video, and I gotta do that for a planned scale.
Aaron:Then I gotta be sure that, like, even though I wanna kinda tweet about, you know, screencasting.com and in the middle of the of the day, like, that feels a little bit, like, am I shirking any responsibilities? And now there's no there's no problem at all. I can I can be on Twitter as much as I want and making YouTube videos as much as I want, and it's like, that's the job now? And so Yeah. That that has and and, like, when I was contemplating what to do next, like, should I start a SaaS?
Aaron:And I thought, no. This is the wrong this is the wrong time in life. I need to be able to produce discrete work products between 9 and 5:30 and or 6, and then go home. And, like Yeah. The the shape of the thing that I'm doing now, I think, fits the, like, the stage of life that I'm at.
Aaron:I'm not responsible for production. I'm not responsible for anything. If I can record a video and throw it over the wall, that's great. And so that all that's kinda how it all lined up with, like, I can't continue to give a 150% effort. Maybe it is time to reap what some of that effort has produced in my life.
Aaron:Yeah.
Greg:Yeah. SaaS is hard too. I mean, I think everyone gets hooked up on, I'm gonna free myself by doing SaaS, and it's like, no. You're just making yourself a bigger set of chains because I mean, you you you tried it with your,
Michael:Oh, yeah.
Greg:With with Oh, yeah. Yeah. You you you you've tried that game before. It looks really great to have recurring revenue. You know, the business runs while I sleep.
Greg:But, I think, yeah, the the the world is, like, littered with the corpses of failed Yes. SaaS ideas. I mean, I think we've all
Michael:got one
Greg:in our pocket. Whereas, yeah, you're right. Consulting is okay. There's less there's less recurring, like, recurring is harder with SaaS with with consulting because, you're sort of at the whims, I guess, of what budgets look like for for companies. I'd imagine giving more production value, but you're not going to be cheap.
Greg:But, you know, it's you can still it it's sort of it's a lot more achievable, I think, and it's a lot closer to what you're what you were sort of doing. And then you'll you'll build products out of it. You'll turn some of this stuff into more courses and, you know, to get that sort of continuous
Michael:learning you're sitting around.
Aaron:I I think so, and I think, yeah, I think just, like, the direction to to keep it on, you know, the podcast brand. Like, I've been putting a lot of stuff out there. Right? And as I've been putting stuff out there, I feel like the direction that my career, if you can call it that, has gone, has kinda, like, meandered a little bit. And I do feel like everything at this point in my life is pointing towards this thing that I'm doing now, and it's not pointing towards create a SaaS.
Aaron:Like, there are a lot of great developers and a lot of people that could create great SaaS. I don't think there are as many developers who want to be on camera, who want to teach, who want to do the, like, be in public thing, and who have the backing of producer Steve, who has, like, unbelievably good taste and talents that I don't have. And so, like, I feel like everything that I've been doing over the past many years has led me to be right here where I am, and sass would have been, like, a hard left turn for for no apparent reason. I think also
Michael:all of the things, all of the experiments that you've done, You know, there was, refine with Colleen. There was airdrop. There was, you know, the the hammer stone journey. All of these bits and pieces that kind of branched off. It was all Psycar?
Michael:Yeah. Psycar. All of all of these things that you've put out into the world have all been good, but they've also helped you to kind of, you know, yep, bowling ball down down the alley, bouncing off the bumpers
Greg:Mhmm.
Michael:Putting you putting you where you are. And I I think that's unless you put yourself out there to to trial these different things, to find out what is the thing that draws you. You know? What is the thing that you truly, truly want to do? And that, you know, as we saw at PlanetScale, as we saw with your personal channel, as we've seen you grow, you know, content creation is it.
Michael:And for a long time, that was for a company. I even before that, like, I was listening to your your podcast with Adam Wadden this morning. Mhmm. And, you know, the the reason that you ended up at at PlanetScale was because you were already working on that MySQL course. Mhmm.
Michael:You know, that work is what, you know, sent you down the direction of working there, and it was a good 12 months or whatever it was.
Aaron:It was and while I was there, it was a great job. I loved it. It was awesome. Yeah. And they they found me because I was publishing articles about MySQL just on my blog.
Aaron:Like, yeah. It's it's crazy.
Michael:So, you know, unless unless you're out there, no one knows. Like, Greg Greg knows this. He he's had all of the material about high performing teams and and being successful in that environment. But it wasn't until, you know, he took the stage at Laracon for a talk that he didn't think he was giving, you know, of the ones that he submitted. It's not this one that he thought was gonna be selected, and now he's, you know, starting to build this consulting business on the side.
Michael:You know, maybe this is what Greg pursues. He didn't know that. He knew that it was it was information that he had.
Aaron:And I think I think that's a super that's a super important point. It's like, you can have good strategy. And I I think of myself as a very strategic person and even even thinking so highly of myself, I never would have guessed that, like, this is this is the end game. And, you know, maybe this is not the end game, but, like, looking back 2 or 3 years ago, I wouldn't have guessed, like, yeah, I'm gonna wander into, you know, open source and then wander back into, you know, paid closed source packages that's kind of SaaS shaped and then into video and, like, I I couldn't have known. And if I I think if I had tried to end up where I am right now today, I don't know that I would have been successful in getting there.
Aaron:It was just a matter of, like, alright. I'm gonna put the next thing out, and then I'm gonna see what happens from there. And I think pinballing down the alley is a is pretty accurate is a pretty accurate description, but I think a lot of people think I I think it is a common failure mode to think, I don't know what the end game is, and therefore, I'm not going to make a move until the end game has become clear. And I think that is a that is a potential mistake. That would be a mistake for me, at least.
Greg:Yeah. It's the bias for action thing. You gotta try something. You gotta, like the the Jeff there's a Jeff Bezos with the bias for action is, like, just I think Sometimes it's faster to just try something, anything, and get the feedback. I was speaking to a client, yesterday about it, and he was sort of asking me whether or not he should submit for Laracon IU.
Greg:The answer to that question, by the way, is yes, always. There's always yes. There's there's there's no there there's no harm in submitting whether you sort of, you know, win or lose the, the pop the the Michael Dorinda popularity contest is, is is neither here nor there. But I was like, and I was I I was sort of channeling my, you know, Aaron Francis. I said, your job isn't to your job isn't to make people like the things or, accept the things that you do.
Greg:Your job is just to do stuff, just do lots of things. And the more of those things that you do, the more chance that you'll find a niche, and the niche will be surprising. As Michael said, what I'm doing right now is I mean, I thought I was I thought I thought I was a Korean, probably still think that I'm a career, you know, tech lead development manager kind of guy, but who knows? I don't know. I don't know what's in store for me later on.
Greg:Just try a bunch of stuff. Like, it you've gotta do some work anyway. It's hard to know what's going to work. Your only other option is to stay in bed and, like, feel sorry for yourself. So just do a thing, and who knows?
Greg:It might turn I mean, I I didn't know I didn't you know, what I I met I met you 2 or 3 years ago, Aaron, and I I Mhmm. At that time, I would never have thought that you were going to become this, like, YouTube content creator sort of Mhmm. Guy. Like, that wasn't Yeah. That wasn't the path that wasn't the path you're on at all.
Greg:But, you know, through, like, a series of somewhat I mean, that they're you can look back and see how they're related now, but at the time, a series of unrelated kind of events Yeah. All sort of come together and culminated in this, like, really fun and interesting and
Michael:Mhmm.
Greg:Imagine somewhat scary. But Of course. Ultimately, it will be very successful. And I I I have faith that that this is gonna be huge for you. So, yeah, just try them on your stuff.
Greg:Just do it.
Aaron:Yeah. I mean, the the you gotta you have to work anyway. I'm I think, like, you're you're right. That there is work is noble in and of itself. Working hard is is a noble But, like, the the work itself, for me at least, trying hard to do a really good job leaves me feeling better at the end of the day.
Aaron:And turns out, it makes it it bends the world around me and brings me good things. But, like, I never know what those things are going to be, but I have so much historical evidence that working hard leaves me feeling emotionally, like, good. I I end feeling worn out and, like, yes, I put in I put myself into that. And I have so much evidence that putting that out there is gonna bring you something. And I think a lot of people get hung up on, like, well, I want this specific outcome.
Aaron:And I'm like, I don't know. That sounds tough. Like, I Yeah. I'm sure that you can do that. That's great.
Aaron:But people don't optimize enough for, I want anything good to happen, and I don't know what that thing is yet. And I just feel like this is this is the answer is easy. Just give something your entire, like I feel like Joe Tennenbaum is the he's he's this year's example, and I feel like he's right at the early stages or even the middle, But, like, let's goof around with prompts for way more way more time than anyone should put in. And now he's giving talks. He's doing Lyricast course.
Aaron:He's, like, he's the guy. Yeah. I feel like that is that is the case study, of this of this year is Joe Tennenbaum.
Greg:And that's a really interesting one because that's really, really hard to see. And I think I think Joe we had we had Joe on a couple of weeks ago, and I think he'd probably agree with this. But it's really, really hard to see how, like, being a goofball with prompts is going to lead to something, but you kinda know that it is. You just like, I can't see I I can't see where it where it turns into a thing, and it may not even be branch related that it turns into. Right?
Greg:It could just be It
Aaron:might not.
Michael:Yeah. Probably one. Yeah.
Greg:Probably one. But, yeah, bet on Joe for sure. Like
Aaron:Yeah. Like I mean, when I when I did, when Jeffrey was like, hey, Aaron. Do you wanna do a a Lyricast course on sidecar? I remember thinking, this is awesome. I freaking arrived.
Aaron:And, like, at at the time, I had. Like, it was my everything to be a Lyricast instructor, and that's where Joe is right now. He's, like, he's done a bunch of work, and people have noticed. And Jeffrey is, like, publicly on Twitter, which is my favorite thing that has ever happened is Jeffrey's been on Twitter being like, hey, Joe, you wanna do a course? I'm like, yeah.
Aaron:See. It's working. Yeah. This is what I'm talking about.
Michael:And you're keeping notes on your own tweets from 6 months ago. Yeah.
Aaron:See, I told you this would happen.
Greg:Yeah. Did did did did you file that at the time, or did you actually
Aaron:call back to this? That. I just totally remembered it. I what what did I say? Like, this is gonna be your thing, or this could be your thing.
Aaron:And then, you
Michael:know, I dug it dug it back up. Yeah. I I think there's there's even just value in you being that guy, being the the cheerleader. Like, I think it's it's such an encouraging and positive thing that in spite of everything going on in your life, 2 sets of twins, you you know, working a 150%, burning the candle at both ends, that you still have time to cheer on people that are still coming up, which is, you know, largely the impetus of this podcast is to talk to those people and to see, you know, what at whatever stage of that journey that they're on. You know?
Michael:Joe, Joe acknowledged that, yeah, he's the prompts guy for now. Maybe that's the thing for a while, but who knows? Like, this is where he started, but he's probably got other interesting thing. Probably. He's got other interesting things to say that we don't know about yet.
Michael:You know, he's a he's a theater guy, a a trained actor, so, you know, who knows what Yep. What that turns to. You know, we've got Daniel and Rissa doing the the Laracon Grand Slam this year. Mhmm. You know, it's maybe we get someone else doing it next year.
Greg:It's Mhmm.
Michael:And it's it's the rein reinforced encouragement as well. Right? It's Rissa and Daniel have done it, and now they're encouraging other people. You know, they've got Joe. They're they're bringing him on the journey.
Michael:It's an incredible way to to see the world, you know, to to to go to these conferences, to to see parts of the world that you probably wouldn't get on a plane and just fly to
Greg:Mhmm.
Michael:Budapa in in India or or go to Amsterdam, you know, those kinds of things. To to have that encouragement from the people that have been there before and so actively doing it is is, I think, the the best part of, you know, the Laravel community in in particular to because there's no no one is you know, there might be a some degree of envy or whatever because that's an inherent in human nature, but there's no negativity towards people going and and doing their thing. Mhmm. And, you know, people are always, here's advice. Here's what you can do.
Michael:If you want help, I'm here. You know, there's always someone willing to to do that, and, you know, you're gonna have even more time to do it now that you're not putting in, you know, 300% effort across 2 jobs. It's it's all gonna be the the fact that you churned out screencasting.com. Mhmm. That, like, it just kind of happened as as quickly as it did, as effectively as it did.
Michael:I'm sure a decent little nest egg for yourself, you know, that that kind of smooths over this blip in your otherwise Yep. You know, full time employment, until, you know, you're gonna be swatting away people that you you you will have a choice of who you want to work on Mhmm. That will work with with try harder studios. You know, all of this this reinforcement and positivity is
Aaron:Yeah. And I I I look at that as, like, I try to be as, like, self aware as possible, and I I am fully aware now that, like, I have been given some amount of, influence or, like, like, some amount of, like, power almost. And I feel, yeah, I feel like it is my, like, almost like my sacred duty to to, like, bring people along. And so, for example, I mean, we've talked about we've talked about Joe. I think somebody that's even earlier in their in their journey in this regard is Mary.
Aaron:Last name, Mary Perry. I think her handle's like I don't know what her handle is. It's like s I is Cifreas or something like that.
Michael:Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron:Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I met her I met her at Lyricon Nashville, and she was, like, first time Lyric Con attendee, didn't really know anybody at all, just, like, bravest thing in the world to show up to a a conference by yourself without knowing anyone. And yesterday, she's live streaming on Twitch trying to do some Laravel stuff, and, like Mhmm. I popped in, and I'm like, Mary, I am so freaking proud of you.
Aaron:Like, top 0.1% of people that's willing to go on stream with and, like, risk not not doing things right. Like, that is the risk when you go on stream is you look like a dummy, and I've done it.
Michael:That is almost the guarantee. It is almost guaranteed when you go on stream is that you suddenly forget how to type, how to interact.
Aaron:Anything, and it's so and you're, like, you're like, is the video running? Is the audio on? Am I doing this right? And I can't remember. And just, like, the the amount of effort it took for me to go into her stream and hang out until my next call, so I had, like, 10 minutes since I just popped in and, like, popped in and hung out in the chat.
Aaron:Like, the amount of effort there is pretty minimal, but I know that that is an encouragement to someone else in an outsized way to be like, I can't believe someone showed up to my stream. It's like, yeah. I I came. I wanted to see. And I think that is, like that is, that's inherent in me, but I think it's also inherent in the Laravel community of, like, when I got laid off, you know, who reached out?
Aaron:Everybody. But, specifically, Matt Stauff Matt Stauffer was like, hey, man. I could find some projects for you. And I'm like, what? Why are you so good to me?
Aaron:Like, why why are you, like, pulling to everyone. He is. And I think That is good to me. I think that is like, the bulk of the Laravel community is people want to see other people win. And I don't feel like there's I mean, even the LiveWire inertia thing, it's like, hey, we got 2 great awesome we got 2 awesome competing frameworks, and we love them both, and we support them both, and everybody is friends.
Aaron:It's like,
Michael:Yeah.
Aaron:That's not normal. That's not normal outside of this community.
Michael:And it and it and it leads from the top. You know, Taylor, Matt in the early days, Jeffrey, you know, all of those guys, that that is how the community has led. And it's it's good that, you know, what are we, 12 years now into the Laravel story. That it's as true now as it was when it started. Because it's about helping people to to build things, to to change their circumstances, to change their lives.
Michael:You know, you mentioned Mary at the start of her journey. That was, you know, Jess Archer 6 years ago. Yeah. Totally. Same same kind of thing.
Michael:She came to a conference not knowing anyone, then she spoke at a conference knowing a few people, and then Mhmm. You know, it ends up that Jess works at Laravel, that she's Mhmm. Shipping all manner of amazing things. You don't know where the journey ends. It's and the journey hasn't even ended.
Michael:You don't even know where the journey goes until you get on the road. So
Aaron:Mhmm.
Greg:Yeah. And I I think it's really easy for people in the community and for, you know, creators and stuff to kind of think, like, in a really insular kind of way like they're and we're all kind of in it for ourselves to some regard. Like, we're we're trying to be successful and and do our thing. I think I think, though, like, where where you're, like, specifically different, Aaron, from, like, the majority of the community is that your thing is to be the community cheerleader. Like, that's like that's and, I mean, I've I've, I've had a few conversations with you where I've kinda been like, should I do this thing?
Greg:And, like, the answer is always just like, yes. You should totally do that. Go and do that thing. And, like but it's it it's it's good because, like, this if I ask myself the question, the answer is yes, you should do the thing, but then the self doubt. Then the sort of why yeah.
Greg:But it's not it's not gonna work, and, that seems really, really hard. And, you know, what if I put in, you know, 100 of hours and there's no payoff? And, you know Mhmm. Whereas Aaron will just go, what if you put in a 100 hours and there's no payoff? So what?
Greg:Just
Michael:Yeah.
Greg:Work really hard.
Michael:Got the experience of of a 100 hours of doing something that you that you learned from. You know? 100 hours of refine ended up with, you know, MySQL for developers, which ended up with PlanetScout, which ended up with Exactly. The studio of light and sound, and this whole this whole new adventure. Like Yeah.
Michael:Even even seeing someone extremely successful, you still see that, you know, the ebb and flow of of the journey. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Good luck looks
Greg:a lot like hard work. Good
Aaron:luck, love. I I I like I like being the hype man. Like, I I I really, really like that, because I just think that I think that maybe particularly in the, like, the developer world, we're all so maybe logical or reasoned that we can talk ourselves out of anything, because that's the whole point. Right? Where we can code for every single edge case, and so we have to think about every single failure mode.
Aaron:Like, that's how our brains work is, like, how could this go wrong? Let me fix it. And it turns out when it comes to, like, when it comes to trying to make your dreams come true, you can talk yourself out pretty quickly if you start thinking about failure modes. And so I like being the person that's like, yeah. I don't know what's gonna happen.
Aaron:I know that directionally, if you put yourself out there, it's going to get better. Is refine, for example, going to make me rich? No. Turns out I spent a lot of time working on that, and it didn't really go anywhere. But that led to which led to, which led to, and now I'm here.
Aaron:And so Yeah. I just have a lot of, like I feel like that's that's inside of me, but I also just have, like, that's my life story. And so someone else someone else may have a different story, and they're more like, well, you need to carefully calculate your next step because that's how they did it, and it worked out for them. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But I think the message that developers usually need to hear is, like, you you can do this, and you should give it a shot and just kinda see what happens.
Aaron:And that's the message that they don't hear very often.
Michael:Yeah. People you know, you say we test their edge cases, but the thing is Mhmm. We write a failing test. Like, we find those boundaries, and then we work past them, around them, through them, you know. Mhmm.
Michael:Like, that is what we do as developers. People forget that bit when they're thinking about all of the failure modes. It's like, if you if you fall down 4 times, you best be picking yourself up 5. Like, you you don't you don't learn as much from your successes as you do from your failures. You don't get better Mhmm.
Michael:By just doing the same thing. You get better by trying new things and learning. Was that the right thing? I don't know. We unless you go out and do it.
Michael:I keep pressing Greg. He's like, should I do this? I'm like, yeah. Like, what what what have you got to lose? You are you are employed full time, and you're trying this other thing on the side.
Michael:If it doesn't work out, you're no worse off than you were before, but you might be 10 times better off if it if it comes off.
Aaron:Yeah. Something I I have had to remind myself many times, in the past several years is that, like, I am optimizing for I am optimizing for Aaron Francis Incorporated, and I think it's easy to think look at, like, individual things and think, oh, those things failed, or those things didn't work as well as I wanted them to. But all of those things are in service of Aaron Francis Inc. Right? And so if these things fail, like, great.
Aaron:Take that and continue to move forward. Like, let the thing go, take the learnings, and continue to move forward. And I think some people get hung up on like, oh, shoot. I tried this SaaS thing and it and it failed. And, like, that was that was it.
Aaron:And I'm like, no. No. No. You're in the business of you. Like, yes, that thing failed.
Aaron:Move on from that failure with no loss of enthusiasm onto the next thing and see what happens.
Michael:Yeah. And
Aaron:I've had to remind myself a lot that a lot because I've done a lot of things that didn't work and continue to do things that don't work.
Greg:For sure. So do you wanna get a plug in for what your,
Aaron:for your new Internet?
Michael:Do you
Greg:wanna sort of get us the
Aaron:the elevator pitch? So, my my friend Steve and I, and Steve worked with me before on some video stuff. So Steve and I have struck out on our own, and we've opened a a video production studio. It's called TryHard Studios. And, basically, the pitch is, we can offer basically anything.
Aaron:But what what we're saying right now is we're offering 2 things. 1 is your company has an existing dev ed or DevRel team making video, and Steve and I can come in as consultants to that team and make them, you know, easily 3 to 5 times more effective in terms of, like, marketing, basically, making the videos work better. And so we're looking for a few clients on in that regard to, like, help level up your existing team. I think the the contact us for pricing or the enterprise sales side of the business is you just want us to do it. Like, you want us to do the whole thing.
Aaron:Like, you want us to produce an entire course for your product or your technology or whatever, and Steve and I can do that as well. We've also been contacted about, like, doing some one off stuff or, like, doing some fun commercial cut type stuff, and we're like, yeah. Sounds great. So that that's kind of the world that we're living in. It's like, let's make really, really good video that is targeted at developers.
Aaron:And so that ends up being, like, dev tool companies. And so, yeah, try hard studios.com. Excellent.
Michael:I'm, I'm interested to see
Greg:as a service.
Michael:General as a service. I'm I'm, I'm interested to see in particular how that, like, enterprise y offering goes, because I know, like Mhmm. It could be fulfilling for you personally because you have to learn all these new things and whatever else. I think it's I think the the tricky thing will be putting yourself in a position where you, give a shit enough to to learn those things well enough to then teach them. I think that Yep.
Michael:That will be the hardest part of that offering If it's, like, learning technologies that you're not excited about or you're not familiar with, like, if you suddenly have to go and
Aaron:yeah. And I wouldn't take it.
Michael:I wouldn't take those
Aaron:I wouldn't take those jobs, because I know, like, I know that no no offense to anyone, but if I have to learn TypeScript and React, like, that's gonna be a massive lift that I'm not going to be thrilled about, and it's gonna come through in the material. And so, like, that is why, one, it costs so much money because I'm only we're only gonna do this for a few companies because I don't wanna be, you know, the face of every company. And 2, it's gonna be a big lift no matter what, but I can't, like, I can't do a GraphQL course. Like, I just don't know it enough, and I would feel I would feel weird slash bad, like, holding myself out as an expert, when when I'm not. And so the the number of, you know, well produced courses that we can do is is honestly it's pretty small.
Aaron:So that I think that is interesting, but there are other, like, there are other things, that we could do. Like, if you want me to do a course on your your whatever platform, like, maybe if your platform's really interesting and, like, I could have fun learning it, for sure, but sorry, TypeScript. Not gonna happen.
Greg:No no re no no hard pivot to react
Aaron:to it. No. I'm afraid not. Yeah. I think I think I'm good at learning, but I
Michael:I have to have my want to learn. I think I think, I think that Yeah. That's exactly right. Your existing DevRel team thing will probably be a a solid niche, and it sounds like you've got a a lot of interest for it. But even like as we said, bouncing down the alleyway, you might, you know, spin out a course of
Aaron:Mhmm.
Michael:10 episodes, 20 episodes of something that you learned along
Aaron:the way. So Yeah. And I think we're finding, like, we're finding that to be the case even now, like, the bouncing part. Like, we'll go into these calls and we're like, hey. Here's kinda what we're thinking.
Aaron:And they're like, great. We're kinda thinking something else. Great. What what's on your mind? And so figuring out, like like, I know what our skills and talents are.
Aaron:What does the market what is the market demanding, and how do we make those two things meet? And that's what we've been doing this week.
Greg:Perfect.
Michael:Well, I wish you all the success in the world with that. I think, I mean, I think
Greg:Buy stocks in Aaron's company. In the 2 of you.
Michael:Yeah. Buy stocks in in Aaron Francis. Yeah. I I wish you well with with the journey. I hope, everything goes well.
Michael:I'm sure that it will, and I I will be eagerly watching, all of the behind the scenes and the content, and I'll be fam refamiliarizing myself with screencasting.com as I get ready to start doing some, some Laracon AU videos in the in the next coming months, which I'm sure no one watches, but I had a great time making them regardless. So
Aaron:They were great. Yeah. Yep. Perfect. Well, thank you.
Aaron:Thank you for having me. I'm super honored to be here. And hopefully, one of these days, I'll get down to the great down under, and we'll get to all
Greg:hail something happening in November in my hometown. I don't know if you've heard about it.
Aaron:Yeah. I'm not sure what it is. I've got I haven't I haven't heard about it yet. Honestly honestly, if if we can pull it off, December is my wife and my 10 year anniversary. And so if we can pull it off, that would be that would be a fun trip.
Aaron:It's just a matter of, like, getting down there and where do we who's gonna keep the kids for that long? So
Greg:Coming to a koala or something.
Michael:Yeah. I'm not
Aaron:taking them on a 25 hour flight, though. That's the problem.
Greg:Not 4 of them.
Aaron:Not Not 4 of them.
Michael:Not 4
Aaron:of them. Not not 8. Sorry, guys. Yeah.
Greg:Well, there's plenty to do down here. You can, like, wrap yourself in a giant Python or cuddle a koala.
Aaron:Yeah. Or a drop bear that's gonna kill you. Yeah.
Greg:Just don't talk to Steven. He'll just my mind.
Michael:He'll be
Aaron:fine. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not trying I don't know what that stuff is, but I'm not trying it. I saw I saw pictures of y'all eating that on stage, and you got no chance.
Aaron:0. I
Greg:don't even know
Aaron:what it is.
Greg:It's a yeast. It's a well, our our our version of it. So there's there's vegemite.
Aaron:You lost me you lost me a yeast. You don't have to go.
Greg:It's it's basically brewers yeast and salt, I think, is kind of the Yeah. We we grow up on it. Like, it's kind of an Yeah.
Aaron:That sounds awesome for y'all. Yeah. I'm not gonna give a freaking chance.
Greg:Alright. Well, this has been really awesome. I'm, I've I've I've I'm really happy that you were able to make the time in your busy schedule. Aaron, I've been sort of hoping to get you on, like, from the start. Like I said, at the call, like Michael said at the beginning, this is we're out here sort of presenting the message, but it really is your your message.
Greg:And I think, like, you've completely inspired this for us. And, yeah, I'm yeah. Thanks for coming on. You can find us, at ripples.fm and all of the usual socials. Michael will get this, out shortly.
Greg:Well, it'll be out when you're listening to it, I guess. And, yeah, if you've if anyone else would like to come and talk about their Ripples journey, reach out to myself or Michael on the socials, and we'd be happy to speak to you. But, until next time, I've been Craig.
Aaron:I have been Michael. I have been and remain Aaron.
Greg:We'll see you all next time.
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